what about sound...

[Alex]

No response was generated from Matts suggestion of using a video camera for audio purposes.

The video camera for audio purposes is a win win situation.

You get visual reference to your takes and high quality audio...you might even get funny behind the scenes moments between takes.



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Alex

[rollemfilm]

i often work alone also, but you still need to record take numbers. using the blooper allows this. you can also slate the tail. the light from the blooper itself makes reading this info even in low light. any method to slate such as tapping the mic with a pencil and shooting it too, will work. even a hand clap. but why would you want to edit so blind? sounds like more work than you need. i mark my takes, point the camera at the blooper, flash! that's it! one person or two. now if you could put a light it the camera to expose a few frames at the same time (Aaton) this would be much better. but you would still need to catalog your takes.

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[MovieStuff]

Hi, Rollen!

I'm not sure how having an automatic start and stop and an automatic tone on the head and tail of the audio is "more work". There is nothing to prevent using this proposed system in conjunction with a slate. Seems that you are making an issue out of whether a slate is used and no one is saying that you can't. If you want to use a slate, then use a slate. If not, then don't. Call me crazy, but it would seem to me having the recorder start and stop by itself and auto-bloop the head and tail automatically would be less work, not more.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what name dropping 'Aaton' does to further this discussion. Most people can't afford to modify their cameras to put a light in them any more than they can afford crystal synch. The idea is terrific, but not practical for the average super 8 user struggling to shoot synch sound on a budget.

I was just trying to offer something that was cheap and would save personel, time and film IF they chose to shoot without slating (and my bet is that most people do shoot without a slate to maximize that precious 2.5 minutes). But whether they do or not has nothing to do with the practicality of the proposed system any more than whether or not they use a lens hood with the system. It just doesn't matter.

Roger

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mattias:

i'd say it would be very evident on the film when the camera started. :-) assuming the camera runs at the correct speed immediately, this would be enough to achieve perfect sync, and even if the camera isn't up to speed until after a few frames, if you use the "strech sync method" this error will be spread across the entire take and won't have much impact.

/matt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Again, this is for people that are shooting by themselves. Even so, there is nothing to prevent someone from standing in front of the camera and providing both a visual and audio slate! This system simply gives you the choice of operating alone.

Roger

[mattias]

ok, you put a light in the camera that flashes one frame when the camera starts. so now you have one flash frame where the camera was stopped (or simply a jump cut if your shutter always stops in a closed position), followed by one flash frame from this light. how would this be better from a slating or syncing perspective than having just the flash frame from the stopped camera?

/matt

[rollemfilm]

roger, i have no problem with starting the camera and the recorder at the same time. infact, if it works without failure, i applaud it! anything to make shooting eaiser is fine. my point is this: you have to catalog your shots. with the auto system, how is this done, for instance, in low light? do you carry a flash light with you? the reason i "named dropped Aaton" is because this kind of system works well with timecode, but very difficult otherwise. i can't afford Aaton either. just pointing out the similarities.

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[rollemfilm]

i have had second thoughts about the auto start system: as a documentary filmmaker i always want to collect as much information as i can. this means recording more audio than i need. ambient as well as pre-shot sound. also, many rank houses like or even require a "pre-roll" on the camera. often 5 seconds. my opinion is that even if the system saves you a few seconds durring a shot, in the long run you're asking for more problems in editing. not to mention a true sync mark. not having enough audio to fill out your production means you need to create audio in the studio. this will cost you even more. you would'nt think that something designed to save you time can really make so much trouble. but it can. i record about 6 times as much audio as picture. no reason for this number. it just works out that way. i record what ever is interesting. and i always start the recorder first. way before a shot. sometimes 30 sec or more. then i'll have plenty of audio for edits. sound for audio dissolves an such.

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[MovieStuff]

Well, again, this unit isn't a "do all". It is an assist for those that simply want to point and shoot with synch sound as fast as possible and don't mind sorting things out later in post. It may not suit everyone's style of shooting or, rather, not everyone's style of shooting may suit the intended application of this device. It's just a tool of convenience that can be used or not, depending on one's needs.

Roger

[rollemfilm]

okey dokey...

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[wyatt]

Great stuff people. Just a little thought. Take the audio from your high 8 video as a reference and just record the dialog using a top of the line mike through a mixer into your magnetic projector. Yes, I admit... this is what I did back in 73 except we did not even have the video portion! Reminds me of the saying "OLD STUFF IS GOOD STUFF" It is painstaking to sync the dialog but once you get it right, the results are exteremely satisfying! Plus the mike can be very close to the actor or commentator thus producing professional results. It is also a good idea to try and extend the projectors mike as far away from the unit as possible to avoid its inherent motor noise.

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[This message has been edited by wyatt (edited October 15, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by wyatt (edited October 15, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by wyatt (edited October 15, 2001).]